Joanna Macy on Meditation, Democracy, and the Great Turning

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(Photo: Adam Shemper)

"We are at a point where we are called to understand – more than ever before – the inherently communitarian character of the Buddha's path." – Joanna Macy

In this excerpt from a 2016 interview for the online program Next Step Dharma, Joanna Macy reflects on the power of meditation, the communal roots of the Buddha’s path, and the need for collective action in a time of global crisis. With characteristic clarity and warmth, she calls us to move beyond hyper-individualism and to practice together as sangha as we face the challenges of our age.

Oren: In our times, with so much distraction and fragmentation of attention, what do you see as the value of silent meditation practice?

Joanna: The Buddha saw suffering as rooted in the fears and delusions of the mind—and we run from that truth at every opportunity. In our time, the capacity to run is greater than ever; we live in a world more efficient in its distractions than any in history. Meditation slows us down, and that alone is an incredible boon. We live in a society hurtling forward faster than our ancestors could imagine. To stop, even briefly, is precious. It lets us experience the exquisite importance of choice—of directing our mind where we want it to go. That repeated act of returning our attention, even when it’s hard, can transform our lives.

Oren: How do you see the gifts of meditation carrying over into the rest of life?

Joanna: You don’t go on retreat just to become a nicer person, or to try to maintain tranquility. The path keeps unfolding as you meet the world, human and non-human alike. This is where great discoveries happen—bringing your practice into the collective life of our time. We discover who we are and what can happen through us, in interdependence with others.

Oren: Meditation can seem so solitary that it’s easy to think that relationships or being a part of a community is secondary on the spiritual path. How do you see this?

Joanna: I think that we are called to understand—more than ever before—the inherently communitarian character of the Buddha’s path. The core doctrine is relational in nature. The Buddha invites us to watch, in our own mind and in the world, the dependent co-arising of all things: a reciprocal process, one thing conditioning another.

The Buddha taught during a time when monarchies were rising and cities were growing. But he came from a tribal republic governed by an assembly—called a sangha—not a monarchy. And that’s the word he used for his fourfold community of monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen. These were self-governing communities where decisions were made by consensus; sometimes they even took ballots—what some political historians see as the earliest roots of democracy on Earth.

They were also radically inclusive—anyone was welcome. The Buddha ordained runaway slaves, soldiers gone AWOL, people of all colors and caste. They lived in a gift economy, holding all in common. Today, in a late capitalist economy shredding lives, deepening poverty, and widening extremes of wealth and deprivation, we have this exquisite model for awakening.

The sangha of that early time calls us to awaken not only to freedom from suffering in one’s heart-mind, but also to the possibility of creating self-governing community that is radically inclusive and in service to the larger whole. 

Oren: What do you suggest for people who find it hard to connect with a community?

Joanna: Even two people sitting together can be enough. Sit down together in silence, take refuge in the practice together, share a few words. There’s a powerful guidance that’s there in your presence together. It’s beautiful.

It's the pearl of great price, that sense of being together on the path. It's so precious…sweet, and steadying. It's an act of great moral beauty too. And then you find that it can help you in moments you didn't expect, when you're far from anything that would look like a spiritual community. You might be down at the police station, or you might be caught in a traffic snarl, or you could be in a great altercation; and then you realize, “Ah, but my sangha is right here.” You find that your sangha is portable, that it lives inside you.

Oren: Any final thoughts on walking this path in our current times?

Joanna: Given the nature of our society, with its tools to contaminate life, to poison the seas and disappear the forests, we need sangha to steady us. It’s as if we’re walking with two ditches on either side, paralysis or panic. The sangha can keep us from falling into either, so we can stay awake with each other, blessing each other every step of the way. 

One of the greatest tasks before us is to deconstruct hyper-individualism. It has achieved such pathological power; it distorts our politics, economy, and even our spiritual lives. So thank goodness we have the Buddha Dharma to help us out of this notion of our precious self-righteousness…that has sunk its claws into us. It is the root of the poisons that we’re inflicting on our systems, of great hatred and delusion.

And we cannot fight our way out of that actual delusion—it’s just a paper bag. It’s not who we really are. With the practice of the Dharma and with others, we see clearly. It’s okay if we don't know everything. It’s okay to forgive ourselves. It’s okay to be wounded. In fact, being able to recognize our incompleteness is exactly what’s most needed. But how do you do that, except in community?

So many people are shut down; they say, “I don’t think there’s anything I can do to make a difference.” Right? [laughter] There isn’t—but you can’t wait for something that one individual can do! It’s with others that we can see together, act together, hear together, feel together. We graduate from the fantasy of what one individual can do, and awaken to the collective.

May these reflections from Joanna’s life and teaching remind us that we are never alone on this path—and that our love, our grief, and our action are most powerful when we walk together.

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